I figure that around 75% of people who read this post will be facebook members and since Slick (admirably so) dislikes having a debate on his site, I figured I'd ask you all what you think....
I'd rather a more subtle discussion on this one (ie. NOT 'facebook as the harbinger of the apocalypse' vs. 'facebook as the single greatest leap in human evolution').
So the basic questions:
Do facebook, Twitter, blogs, etc. serve to cheapen and 'superficialize' relationship by boiling friendship down to carefully crafted profiles and narcissistic status updates?
OR
Are they just a slicker and more accessible method for superficial people to behave superficially?
OR
For all their faults, are they good ways to connect and reconnect with people who you would be otherwise unlikely to locate?
If you are a user or not a user... lets get a little introspective on this. How has it changed your relationships?
Posts
My answer is "D", all of the above.
ReplyDeleteSocial networking feeds narcissism, as evidenced by myspace tallying how many views your profile has, as well as people "collecting friends" on FB and myspace. The word "friend" now has less meaning to most because of it. People prone to superficiality will certainly glom onto it and use it to feed their habit.
That being said, I have reconnected on facebook with people I have not seen and/or talked to since 1987. That's pretty cool. Because I am so busy, it is also nice to be able to pop onto someone's site and just leave a quick message to say hi. It is faster than drafting a full email.
I think that it is a tool which, like many other tools, people can make of it what they want. I deny facebook friend invites from people I don't know because I don't need to run up my friend count, so I choose to use discretion.
The biggest problem I see with all the social networking sites is that people who are either too naive or have no parental oversight put WAY too much of their business out there. Any time I get a resume, I immediately put their name and/or email into myspace and facebook to see if the person comes up. There are people that I did not interview because their lack of judgment regarding pictures or info on their profiles tell me more about their maturity than any list of educational activities. [One of those people was actually older than me -- I interviewed her just to humour myself].
That's my 2 cents. It amuses me that some people are SO animate one way or the other. Settle down folks. I may have to visit Slick's blog to see some of what I assume must be clearly well researched and articulated arguments must be....I bet I am disappointed ;-)
I agree, Tammi, that it really depends on the person using it. I love the fact that I can catch up with people I thought I would never see again.
ReplyDeleteI guess you could see the "status updates" as being narcissistic but I also find them to be easy ways to keep up with people... especially when you are so far away from them. It helps the awkward "So what have you been up to for the past year?"
I find end of the year Christmas updates to be much more narcissistic . I would rather know that my friend was sick so I could quickly check up on them than just have an end of the year overview of all the places they've vacationed to. Some argue that facebook networking is superficial but if I didn't have it, I wouldn't even get down to the superficial layer... so which is better?
I will say that there comes with it an addiction. The more people you have to check up on, the more time you are taking away from your day.
I think that we people have a need for feeling accepted, being entertained, and wanting to escape from the stresses of life. Being a part of facebook becomes sort of a world in itself... except it's only your friends. It's a generally safe environment where you won't be rejected and quite frankly you don't have to deal with the stresses of work (or whatever else you may be trying to escape from). All that to say... if you sense the tangible relationships of your everyday suffering from your time on facebook, then it's worth putting limits on the usage. (Of which I have been guilty of and need to continually do. :))
Sarah, you are brilliant even on a bad day and I daresay GENIUS on most. I think over 200 of my facebook friends are people from my church in LA that I don't get to see and even their silly status updates let me keep up to speed and chat to them about things that they would never have the chance to sit and draft a whole email about [probably because they AREN'T arrogant enough to think everyone cares about whether they are making cookies or whatnot]
ReplyDeletePerfect example of how status updates help -- my old housemate's wife just had a baby this morning. In one sentence of less than 160 characters (since we know facebook puts a cap on it) he announced the birth, the name, the weight, length, and that wifey was doing well.
I bet it took him less than a minute and let him deliver the news to a large chunk of friends and family and get right back to his new son.
I dare someone to tell me that's superficial. You can get out of it what you want.
Sarah is still a genius.
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ReplyDeleteAlthough I enjoyed the mockery of "I just ate an orange and thought the world should know" was narcissism defined and funny, I don't think that was his main point.
ReplyDeleteHis main point is that internet interaction is superficial. Yes, it's a good way to keep up to date with people...but, in the end it's superficial when compared to a real relationship. So, even though I agree that there are many great things about these sites, it was a good reminder that it shouldn't be used as a substitute for a real relationship.
For example, I posted a trip report about my hike on my blog. My mom called me yesterday while I was in the middle of something and mentioned she had read and enjoyed my post. Since I couldn't really talk, I didn't really have much more to say then what I typed. What should have happened, in a real sense, was that I talked to my Mom about it in person next time I see her or even yesterday when she called. What will happen is that a few days will go by and the topic won't get addressed again...hence that "conversation" or interaction just supplanted a true relational interaction with another human being.
He feels this way about Facebook. To make a generalized statement that it does affect everyone in the same way doesn't take into account how they use these sites nor their relationships, so I can't really say. On my blog I said it was "something to think about"...because I had just experienced an example that day of how it had replaced a conversation with my Mom.
I am not a fan of social networking sites. Social relationships, if they are to have real meaning, aren't networked - they are nurtured.
ReplyDeleteThat said, all the points and opinions above have validity (except for I assume the comment deleated). Facebook, blogs, and the like can be used for good and for evil. If one wants to share his or her life through a blog - more power to them. You get out what you put in.
If it weren't for my wife's blog, somethings wouldn't get discussed objectively. If it weren't for this blog, I wouldn't really know what Matt was up to, I wouldn't know Ukrainian politics, or really care what is going on there. But now I do.
Blogs, I think more than other forms of interweb communications have the potential for real nurturing. In 10 minutes every other or day or so I check up on my buddy in the Ukraine, our friends in Afganistan, the Phillipines, or my brother 120 miles away. I can get involved, although in a small way, with the ones I care about.
I'm considering starting a blog myself, having found it a great way for communication that is both real and genuine, and non-committal and quick. For those who "can't live without my facebook page", if you aren't good enough without it, you'll never be good enough with it. A old coach of mine taught me that, or it might have been john candy in cool runnings, but either way the sentiment is sound.
Blog on good sir, blog on good lady.
I saw this post early early this morning and wanted to really lay into it because I have this knee-jerk reaction to facebook as a waste of time sort of thing, but I suspect it's probably because I work directly with people who practically only use it as a waste of time: high school kids.
ReplyDeleteI'm leery of facebook for several reasons, but rather than repeat the reasonable downsides already mentioned, I'll just give one real-world example of why I'm afraid of its dark side. A parishioner at my church "friended" me, and I "confirmed." Then a week later, he posts his status as going to another church today with another parishioner of our church because he wants to avoid the lousy music at our church. Now, I'm not the music director at our church anymore, but I know that the new music director is also "facebook friends" with this guy.
It's really cool to be able to catch up with long-lost acquaintances and faraway friends in quick little snippets, but pretty soon you feel obligated to keep up with all your friends' status updates, and you're suddenly spending time reading about somebody you used to know tangentially and now are seven degrees of Bacon away from in any real sense.
It can be used for good as well as evil, but the next time my cat lady friend sends me a picture of a kitty to make my day, I'm going to de-friend her. Seriously, how many pieces of flair do I need?
Secret word: redishi
Oooh Slick's got jokes! Of course he knows what I meant is that people who are prone to extreme exaggeration (as Matty's post made it appear was the case) are very rarely the most thought out and articulated arguments if for no other reason that world does not operate in extreme cases of black and white.
ReplyDeleteBut I knew you knew that....just putting it out there for the people....
;-)
PS-"dithrap"?? Really?
I am so on your wavelength Tammi. Cynical people do think in very black and white terms... and often become very judgemental. And that's how I took the article. One good thing about cynical people, though, is at least they make you think and re-evaluate.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Aaron that it should not be used as a substitute for maintaining our deeper relationships... especially our moms! But if we only maintained our deep relationships and had no superficial (which I think that word gets a bad rap) relationships we would miss out on so much. God works in all relationships. Lately, I've been more encouraged by some of my "superficial" friends. And who knows how God wants to use me... maybe an encouraging word from me will take me off of some mass killer's list (Billy Madison, right?)
We can find the good and the bad in just about anything. I enjoy these conversations because it really helps keep me accountable and to evaluate myself. It's easier getting criticism from people you know love you. I didn't feel the love coming from this guy.
Upon further review, I also realized that I had yet to talk with Stacey much about my trip too! Part of the reason is because she’s been sick, so we haven’t talked much anyway. However, I think a lot of the reason why we haven’t talked about it is because I’ve already “said my peace” about it on my blog. How bad is it if the way my wife found out about the details is by reading about it on my blog!
ReplyDeleteI think most of us all agree it’s just like any other tool…it’s how the tool is used and the fact that some people react/use it differently then others (easy examples are guns and alcohol). If I’m prone to using my blog as a substitute for conversation I need to re-evaluate the whole situation.
Whether or not the article is well-written or researched or cynical (it probably is), the fact that the article is thought provoking/inspired a conversation is enough in my mind. I can overlook the tone or details in the message if I get the overall point and it’s worth consideration.
I'm sorry I haven't chipped in on this debate... ironically I've had too much going on in my real world life.
ReplyDeleteI actually have 2 separate opinions on this... or maybe 3... let's see how many show up.
First, facebook actually functions as a clearinghouse for all methods of cyber communication. As trendy as it is and as immature as it can get, it is really not much different than having email, a blog, picture site, chat and micro blog (ie Twitter) into one. You don't have to use all those but they are available.
Honestly, I can take or leave it as an entertainment method but I do use it for correspondence since it tends to be more closely monitored by a lot of folks. I exchanged fb comments from Ukraine with Tammi while she was at Anfield watching Chelsea-Liverpool... for free. You can't argue with that.
Twitter... well that's mostly narcissism with the exception of the few folks who use it like a tiny little funny blog... cause those are awesome.
I'm actually stupid tired at the moment, so I don't really see the point of trying to make anymore coherant statements. Maybe I'll finish this later.
Here is this You Tube Video that I think is fun and telling about FB and MS like sites. We would never interact with people like we do online. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_ax0e7RXj8&eurl=http://partlows.blogspot.com/&feature=player_embedded
ReplyDeleteMark wanted me to weigh in on this, but now I'm so late that no one will probably ever read this.
ReplyDeleteI love my blog, because it gives me a chance to write. I'm not on Facebook, MySpace, or Twitter, but I am on Ravelry. Ravelry is a sort've combo of all of those for knitters. We share projects, techniques, yarns, and all sorts of information. I love it.
Also, thanks to Ravelry, I made two new friends, when three of us Greeley-area knitters connected in the Colorado group. We are close to one year of meeting every week--we road trip together, take classes together, share girls' nights out--and all because we had this knitting thing in common. I have been very grateful for that, as making friends gets a bit harder as you get older.
So that's my perspective. (And if you knit or crochet and aren't on Ravelry, join!)